Alain de Botton and Robert Wright have a long discussion about atheism and the “need for religion” (or at least the exoteric accoutrements of religion). But the conversation seems ahistorical. Confucianism seems to address many of their “wants”; that is, a moralistic framework that makes positive claims with communitarian presuppositions which are not necessarily contingent upon supernatural agents.
-
Archives
- August 2019
- July 2019
- February 2019
- January 2019
- December 2018
- November 2018
- October 2018
- August 2018
- July 2018
- May 2018
- April 2018
- March 2018
- February 2018
- January 2018
- December 2017
- November 2017
- October 2017
- September 2017
- August 2017
- July 2017
- June 2017
- May 2017
- April 2017
- March 2017
- February 2017
- January 2017
- December 2016
- November 2016
- October 2016
- September 2016
- August 2016
- July 2016
- June 2016
- May 2016
- April 2016
- March 2016
- February 2016
- January 2016
- December 2015
- November 2015
- October 2015
- September 2015
- August 2015
- July 2015
- June 2015
- May 2015
- April 2015
- March 2015
- February 2015
- January 2015
- December 2014
- November 2014
- October 2014
- September 2014
- August 2014
- July 2014
- June 2014
- May 2014
- April 2014
- March 2014
- February 2014
- January 2014
- December 2013
- November 2013
- October 2013
- September 2013
- August 2013
- July 2013
- June 2013
- May 2013
- April 2013
- March 2013
- February 2013
- January 2013
- December 2012
- November 2012
- October 2012
- September 2012
- August 2012
- July 2012
- June 2012
- May 2012
- April 2012
- March 2012
- February 2012
- January 2012
- December 2011
- November 2011
- October 2011
- September 2011
- August 2011
- July 2011
- June 2011
- May 2011
- April 2011
- March 2011
- February 2011
- January 2011
- December 2010
- November 2010
- October 2010
- September 2010
- August 2010
- July 2010
- June 2010
- May 2010
- April 2010
- March 2010
- February 2010
- January 2010
- December 2009
- November 2009
- October 2009
- September 2009
- August 2009
- July 2009
- June 2009
- May 2009
- April 2009
- March 2009
- February 2009
- January 2009
- December 2008
- November 2008
-
Meta
A careful check of Greek and Roman philosophy will show that they went much farther with a much more profound grasp of the issues than the moderns.
say more. which ancients? which moderns? what specific issues?
The Analects and other Confucian texts mention Heaven as a supernatural moral force a little too much for that.
Even if you’re right about Confucianism, DH, what good is that to us in the West?
Some of what A. de B. was saying is plausible (the lack of structure, the need for good advice for students, flawed human nature) but we can’t create proper rituals – they evolve. I’ll go with Wright’s irony (sarcasm?) every time. Non-believers can respect religion and give credit where credit is due. But de Botton’s ‘middle ground’ is a fudge and verges on nuttiness.
The Analects and other Confucian texts mention Heaven as a supernatural moral force a little too much for that.
first, ‘heaven’ is NOT a personal god. especially as confucianism is elaborated. second, the third of the great confucian sages, xunzi, was a materialist. so there isn’t unity on this issue. third, the primary point is confucianism is not necessarily grounded on belief in a personal supernatural agent.
DH, what good is that to us in the West?
we don’t need to generate insights de novo. a lot of te basic elements have been test run already.
Gotta go with mark e on this one. Nobody in the modern West is going to give a fraction of a fart what Confucianism argues, except those that are already convinced of the need for something like it.
I don’t think DH actually recommends Confucianism. It’s just a good counter-example of a moral belief system without a god in the center. In academic studies of religion, it is sometimes debated whether Confucianism itself is actually a religion. As I understand it, Confucius did not establish a religion, and any “religious” references (such as to heaven) simply built upon the metaphors of existing folk religions — beliefs in common use that people already understood. Any rituals associated with Confucianism appear to be more ancient than the system itself — borrowed, one might say. Confucian emphasis on the pragmatic and practical aspects of leading a good life (with arguments to match, which are mostly parable-like) outweigh any mystical mumbo jumbo usually associated with religion. Which makes Confucianism a pretty good example of a “moral belief system” without the huge dose of supernaturalism common to cultures outside the Great Wall. Even so, I don’t think DH is saying we should use it as a template (much less convert). All I took away from the post was that there are moral systems sometimes called “religious” without a lot of voodoo at the core.
To GTChristie: No, I don’t think DH was actually recommending Confucianism either, though I see how my brief observation could be seen that way.
I’ll try to get back to this soon.
GTChristie captures my sentiments correctly.