Overheard on Christian talk station KBRT 740 am today:
I’ve never come across a ministry where [the leaders] don’t all fly first class. And why are all these guys driving gold-plated Rolls Royces?
Radio evangelist Bob Christopher on his fellow ministers. Christopher was himself peddling an upcoming Jesus conference on his show, People to People.
He wouldn’t exagerrate or bend the truth, of course, so it must be true.
Actually, he might if he was trying to promote his brand at the expense of others.
Even if he isn’t, for every simonious televangelist you find, there are plenty more priests, nuns and monks living in penury. I don’t think that argument will get you far.
For all the priests, nuns, and monks living in penury, there are several organizations which host them which are fantastically wealthy.
It’s not just the Catholics, either – the Orthodox recently had a major scandal in which it was shown not only that funds had been embezzled for years, but that the leadership actively helped cover it up.
Churches are basically corporations that formed before the idea of corporations was ever brought up.
Yeah, he’s either being dishonest or it shows what type of ministers he’s hanging out with. There are tons of ministries whose leaders do not fly first class.
For all the priests, nuns, and monks living in penury, there are several organizations which host them which are fantastically wealthy.
You’re simply repeating the first argument. Corrupt religious leaders are hardly a new phenomenon. It goes back to the Testaments. For every sensational scandal you find, you will find more dedicated and honest laborers. I’m not saying that they prove the validity of God, only that the corrupt don’t disprove it.
Churches are basically corporations that formed before the idea of corporations was ever brought up.
And? All in all, corporations are a good thing, the occasional, headline-grabbing Enron notwithstanding.
They’re not used as arguments against “God”, but as arguments against faith in authority. That they can be corrupt means that they should not be trusted blindly, and without blind trust what arguments can they offer in favor of their extraordinary claims?
Out of curiosity: what would constitute a disproof of the validity of God, in your mind?
Churches are basically corporations that formed before the idea of corporations was ever brought up.
Exactly. In fact, the idea of corporations evolved out of the medieval guilds and the universities, with canon law helping legally specify how they should be set up as independent entities. (If I recall correctly this is from Berman’s work, as cited by Huff in his book on the rise of science).
No little irony in all this.
They’re not used as arguments against “God”, but as arguments against faith in authority.?
Nolite confidere in principibus?
Out of curiosity: what would constitute a disproof of the validity of God, in your mind?
Strictly speaking, I don’t think it’s possible to do that; i.e., it would be trying to prove a negative. We can however cast significant doubt on certain gods. I find the evidence for Jesus’ resurrection lacking, for example. I suppose we could disprove it altogether if we had his corpse and the DNA controls. We don’t, so, oh well.
Nolite confidere in sacerdos would be more like it. What’s Latin for “authority”?
Ah, so you’re one of those people who believes you can’t prove a negative. That explains rather a lot.
Couldn’t you wear a sign around your neck saying “I am unable to reason”, as a warning to anyone who might try to strike up a conversation? Perhaps a bell or a crier going before you, as well.
Pedantic alert:
IIRC, you actually want sacerdotis, which is the ablative plural
Auctoritas or auctoritate
I’m using my rusty memory here, so corrections would be welcome.
Ah, so you’re one of those people who believes you can’t prove a negative.
Ah, and you’re one of those people who insist on going through life acting like a total dick. Fortunately, you don’t need a sign, as you make it obvious with every communication.
Correction:
The plural ablative of sacerdos is actually sacerdotibus.
Really religions are closer to NPO’s in structure since they have a tax shelter. If I wanted to make a religion that, for example, was based in California, had a formalized hierarchy based on monetary donations quanitities and primarily recruited celebrities -! I might be on to something!
“You don’t get rich writing science fiction. If you want to get rich, you start a religion.” – L. Ron Hubbard