<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments for Secular Right</title>
	<atom:link href="http://secularright.org/SR/wordpress/comments/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://secularright.org/SR/wordpress</link>
	<description>Reality &#38; Reason</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Tue, 21 Feb 2012 22:27:57 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
		<item>
		<title>Comment on Against Agape (Restaurants) and All That by Polichinello</title>
		<link>http://secularright.org/SR/wordpress/2012/02/21/against-agape-restaurants-and-all-that/comment-page-1/#comment-23699</link>
		<dc:creator>Polichinello</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Feb 2012 22:27:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://secularright.org/SR/wordpress/?p=6996#comment-23699</guid>
		<description>Wow, Mike, that&#039;s a lot of irrelevant 888.

Anyhoo, in the OP Wilson writes:

&lt;i&gt;Historically speaking, the modern idea is that religious rites should only be permitted to those prepared to jump through certain intellectual hoops as an entrance requirement.&lt;/i&gt;

This is why no one takes liberal Christians very seriously.  The idea that the Christian faith only recently--in modern times--took belief seriously is laughably dishonest.  You have disputes about what Christians should believe in the New Testament itself.  Paul was pretty clear on this point, too.  He said if Christ wasn&#039;t crucified and resurrected, than all the preaching and writing he did was in vain; it&#039;s worthless.

The liberal Christian groups have followed Wilson&#039;s advice. They&#039;ve long since given up on any serious belief, and let&#039;s look at where their memberships have gone: through the floor.  Lord knows, I don&#039;t want to waste my Sunday morning getting hectored by some miserable lesbian in vestments for the sake of some theology I don&#039;t even buy into.

If Wilson wants to hold onto the forms of Christianity but dispense with the belief, fine, but at least recognize that this is a radical break with all of Christian history.  It is a revolution, and it will not be welcomed as an improvement by those who will be dispossessed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow, Mike, that&#8217;s a lot of irrelevant 888.</p>
<p>Anyhoo, in the OP Wilson writes:</p>
<p><i>Historically speaking, the modern idea is that religious rites should only be permitted to those prepared to jump through certain intellectual hoops as an entrance requirement.</i></p>
<p>This is why no one takes liberal Christians very seriously.  The idea that the Christian faith only recently&#8211;in modern times&#8211;took belief seriously is laughably dishonest.  You have disputes about what Christians should believe in the New Testament itself.  Paul was pretty clear on this point, too.  He said if Christ wasn&#8217;t crucified and resurrected, than all the preaching and writing he did was in vain; it&#8217;s worthless.</p>
<p>The liberal Christian groups have followed Wilson&#8217;s advice. They&#8217;ve long since given up on any serious belief, and let&#8217;s look at where their memberships have gone: through the floor.  Lord knows, I don&#8217;t want to waste my Sunday morning getting hectored by some miserable lesbian in vestments for the sake of some theology I don&#8217;t even buy into.</p>
<p>If Wilson wants to hold onto the forms of Christianity but dispense with the belief, fine, but at least recognize that this is a radical break with all of Christian history.  It is a revolution, and it will not be welcomed as an improvement by those who will be dispossessed.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>Comment on Against Agape (Restaurants) and All That by Mike Shupp</title>
		<link>http://secularright.org/SR/wordpress/2012/02/21/against-agape-restaurants-and-all-that/comment-page-1/#comment-23697</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Shupp</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Feb 2012 09:26:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://secularright.org/SR/wordpress/?p=6996#comment-23697</guid>
		<description>Oh, I dunno.  Look at the Republican Congressmen who thought Mitt Romney&#039;s health care ideas were worth bragging about until Barak Obama decided to use them in his health care program -- at which point they became the very spawn of the devil.   Think of all the politicians who stand up boldly to tell their constituents a) Global warming is a myth devised by criminal scientists, b) Darwinian evolution is unproven and if taught in public schools, this should be &quot;balanced&quot; by creationalist accounts, and c) America needs more scientists and engineers and we should take all steps to encourage youngsters to pursue STEM careers.  Think of the importance of sport --especially, professional sports --in our everyday lives.  Think of the Superbowl.  Think of the importance of the sacred Superbowl halftime show, and the attention we give to Superbowl ads.  Think of those voters who are still hypnotised by the burning issues of whether Obama is a Christian or a Moslem, or even whether he was born in America, or even could be an American since his father wasn&#039;t.

IOW, rite and ritual are pretty well built into the typical American&#039;s mental operating system in the year 2012. We aren&#039;t THAT different from Romans of the Republic cutting oxen apart on the Senate steps to examine the entrails each New Year, we might not be that far from the Aztec crowds gathered at the base of sacred pyramids watching as human hearts were flung into braziers -- while bodies rolled down the steps to butchers&#039; wagons.  We might not be all that different from AN Wilson and his ungodly Anglican hierophants.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh, I dunno.  Look at the Republican Congressmen who thought Mitt Romney&#8217;s health care ideas were worth bragging about until Barak Obama decided to use them in his health care program &#8212; at which point they became the very spawn of the devil.   Think of all the politicians who stand up boldly to tell their constituents a) Global warming is a myth devised by criminal scientists, b) Darwinian evolution is unproven and if taught in public schools, this should be &#8220;balanced&#8221; by creationalist accounts, and c) America needs more scientists and engineers and we should take all steps to encourage youngsters to pursue STEM careers.  Think of the importance of sport &#8211;especially, professional sports &#8211;in our everyday lives.  Think of the Superbowl.  Think of the importance of the sacred Superbowl halftime show, and the attention we give to Superbowl ads.  Think of those voters who are still hypnotised by the burning issues of whether Obama is a Christian or a Moslem, or even whether he was born in America, or even could be an American since his father wasn&#8217;t.</p>
<p>IOW, rite and ritual are pretty well built into the typical American&#8217;s mental operating system in the year 2012. We aren&#8217;t THAT different from Romans of the Republic cutting oxen apart on the Senate steps to examine the entrails each New Year, we might not be that far from the Aztec crowds gathered at the base of sacred pyramids watching as human hearts were flung into braziers &#8212; while bodies rolled down the steps to butchers&#8217; wagons.  We might not be all that different from AN Wilson and his ungodly Anglican hierophants.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>Comment on Against Agape (Restaurants) and All That by mark e.</title>
		<link>http://secularright.org/SR/wordpress/2012/02/21/against-agape-restaurants-and-all-that/comment-page-1/#comment-23696</link>
		<dc:creator>mark e.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Feb 2012 06:48:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://secularright.org/SR/wordpress/?p=6996#comment-23696</guid>
		<description>Wilson&#039;s view is a very common one (extremely common within Anglicanism) but it&#039;s a view I have never fully understood or sympathized with. It involves treating (a version of) Christianity as if it were like, say, the Roman state religion - a bit of a stretch. Of course one recognizes that not everyone in the church believes the same things, but unless they believe in a spiritual realm in some sense, I just don&#039;t get why they are there. The word hypocrisy comes to mind (but I guess that just shows my Puritan streak).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wilson&#8217;s view is a very common one (extremely common within Anglicanism) but it&#8217;s a view I have never fully understood or sympathized with. It involves treating (a version of) Christianity as if it were like, say, the Roman state religion &#8211; a bit of a stretch. Of course one recognizes that not everyone in the church believes the same things, but unless they believe in a spiritual realm in some sense, I just don&#8217;t get why they are there. The word hypocrisy comes to mind (but I guess that just shows my Puritan streak).</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>Comment on Agape at Agape by Mark in Spokane</title>
		<link>http://secularright.org/SR/wordpress/2012/02/20/agape-at-agape/comment-page-1/#comment-23695</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark in Spokane</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Feb 2012 06:03:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://secularright.org/SR/wordpress/?p=6967#comment-23695</guid>
		<description>A wacky idea, but one that testifies to the fact that within the vast majority of human beings, a religious impulse is hardwired.  People will either express that religiosity through traditional forms of religion that have shaped and been shaped by their broader culture, or they will invent new forms of religious ritual -- even if they don&#039;t want to call it that.  The end of religion won&#039;t happen -- just its transformation.  If traditional religious faiths die or or get pushed to the margins by the State, religion won&#039;t disappear.  If we are lucky, we just get benign and wacky things like these Agape dinners.  If we aren&#039;t lucky, we&#039;ll get something much worse.  And such worse things do lurk out there, as Marxism and anti-human environmental radicalism evidence.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A wacky idea, but one that testifies to the fact that within the vast majority of human beings, a religious impulse is hardwired.  People will either express that religiosity through traditional forms of religion that have shaped and been shaped by their broader culture, or they will invent new forms of religious ritual &#8212; even if they don&#8217;t want to call it that.  The end of religion won&#8217;t happen &#8212; just its transformation.  If traditional religious faiths die or or get pushed to the margins by the State, religion won&#8217;t disappear.  If we are lucky, we just get benign and wacky things like these Agape dinners.  If we aren&#8217;t lucky, we&#8217;ll get something much worse.  And such worse things do lurk out there, as Marxism and anti-human environmental radicalism evidence.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>Comment on Agape at Agape by John</title>
		<link>http://secularright.org/SR/wordpress/2012/02/20/agape-at-agape/comment-page-1/#comment-23694</link>
		<dc:creator>John</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Feb 2012 02:09:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://secularright.org/SR/wordpress/?p=6967#comment-23694</guid>
		<description>Botton seems like the type who has never in his life wanted to be alone.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Botton seems like the type who has never in his life wanted to be alone.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>Comment on Tests by A-Bax</title>
		<link>http://secularright.org/SR/wordpress/2012/02/19/tests/comment-page-1/#comment-23693</link>
		<dc:creator>A-Bax</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Feb 2012 21:58:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://secularright.org/SR/wordpress/?p=6976#comment-23693</guid>
		<description>I just can&#039;t believe that when the issues of the day are 1) looming fiscal disaster, and 2) massive governmental overreach that the GOP is flirting with the idea of nominating a g-dd-amn culture warrior!!

If Santorum is the nominee, I&#039;ll vote for him, but only because I&#039;d vote for ANYONE over Obama.  But holy f-ing Christ, Santorum?  Really?  He couldn&#039;t just focus on the coercive nature of the abhorrent mandate.  He HAD to get down into the weeds of the pros and cons of contraception.  (And yes, Obama &quot;started&quot; this by mandating contraception, but Santorum the Scold took the bait like a fool).

I read something by Paul Ryan the other day that clearly and succinctly laid out the case for why the mandate is an unconstitutional overreach, and he did it while explicitly dismissing contraception as even relevant to the discussion.

I get why people are sour on Romney, I really do.  And I get it that Gingrich is unacceptable.  But I really am beginning to fear that the single most destructive politician of my lifetime will win another term - despite spending the country into oblivion, despite defying court rulings to resume drilling in the Gulf, despite upending bankruptcy law vis a vis secured/unsecured creditors, despite the myriad and nearly uncountable discrepancies between his rhetoric as a candidate and his record as an executive, despite the most transparently demagogic and poisonous class warfare routine I&#039;ve ever seen, despite massive unemployment, high-and-staying there gas prices, and finally, despite his completely unlawful seizure of ONE SIXTH of the economy - that despite all this, the Half-Blood Prince of Paradise will win another term because the GOP can&#039;t produce an f-ing candidate with the right combination of intellect, temperament, and charisma to EVEN LAY OUT THE CASE AGAINST HIM convincingly.

It&#039;s getting the to point that if we lose, I&#039;m going to seriously blame Paul Ryan for not running.  What was his excuse again?  Besides cowardice?  He absolutely schooled Obama at the Blair House.  He would shred Obama on substance and his style is not off-putting to moderates.  The base knows he&#039;s sincere.  He&#039;s not a culture warrior and he&#039;s not a loose cannon.  He&#039;s likeable, presentable, and quick on his feet.

And we&#039;re stuck with a Jesus-freak, and empty suit, and a unguided, unstable rocket.  THE FCUK!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just can&#8217;t believe that when the issues of the day are 1) looming fiscal disaster, and 2) massive governmental overreach that the GOP is flirting with the idea of nominating a g-dd-amn culture warrior!!</p>
<p>If Santorum is the nominee, I&#8217;ll vote for him, but only because I&#8217;d vote for ANYONE over Obama.  But holy f-ing Christ, Santorum?  Really?  He couldn&#8217;t just focus on the coercive nature of the abhorrent mandate.  He HAD to get down into the weeds of the pros and cons of contraception.  (And yes, Obama &#8220;started&#8221; this by mandating contraception, but Santorum the Scold took the bait like a fool).</p>
<p>I read something by Paul Ryan the other day that clearly and succinctly laid out the case for why the mandate is an unconstitutional overreach, and he did it while explicitly dismissing contraception as even relevant to the discussion.</p>
<p>I get why people are sour on Romney, I really do.  And I get it that Gingrich is unacceptable.  But I really am beginning to fear that the single most destructive politician of my lifetime will win another term &#8211; despite spending the country into oblivion, despite defying court rulings to resume drilling in the Gulf, despite upending bankruptcy law vis a vis secured/unsecured creditors, despite the myriad and nearly uncountable discrepancies between his rhetoric as a candidate and his record as an executive, despite the most transparently demagogic and poisonous class warfare routine I&#8217;ve ever seen, despite massive unemployment, high-and-staying there gas prices, and finally, despite his completely unlawful seizure of ONE SIXTH of the economy &#8211; that despite all this, the Half-Blood Prince of Paradise will win another term because the GOP can&#8217;t produce an f-ing candidate with the right combination of intellect, temperament, and charisma to EVEN LAY OUT THE CASE AGAINST HIM convincingly.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s getting the to point that if we lose, I&#8217;m going to seriously blame Paul Ryan for not running.  What was his excuse again?  Besides cowardice?  He absolutely schooled Obama at the Blair House.  He would shred Obama on substance and his style is not off-putting to moderates.  The base knows he&#8217;s sincere.  He&#8217;s not a culture warrior and he&#8217;s not a loose cannon.  He&#8217;s likeable, presentable, and quick on his feet.</p>
<p>And we&#8217;re stuck with a Jesus-freak, and empty suit, and a unguided, unstable rocket.  THE FCUK!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>Comment on &#8220;Gone from the world of Christianity as I see it&#8230;&#8221; by eugen</title>
		<link>http://secularright.org/SR/wordpress/2012/02/18/gone-from-the-world-of-christianity-as-i-see-it/comment-page-1/#comment-23692</link>
		<dc:creator>eugen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Feb 2012 20:41:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://secularright.org/SR/wordpress/?p=6972#comment-23692</guid>
		<description>I agree with what I take to be Nathan Arov&#039;s comment. How about asking some Orthodox Rabbis what they think of &quot;Judeo-Christianity&quot;?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with what I take to be Nathan Arov&#8217;s comment. How about asking some Orthodox Rabbis what they think of &#8220;Judeo-Christianity&#8221;?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>Comment on Tests by Polichinello</title>
		<link>http://secularright.org/SR/wordpress/2012/02/19/tests/comment-page-1/#comment-23691</link>
		<dc:creator>Polichinello</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Feb 2012 19:38:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://secularright.org/SR/wordpress/?p=6976#comment-23691</guid>
		<description>Considering the abortion procedure that&#039;s being considering, the vaginal ultrasound is, at most, a short warm-up act.

Again, I wouldn&#039;t have voted for the bill, and I&#039;m still pulling the lever for Romney.  I not a Santorum fan, but what he&#039;s talking about is at an entirely different stage of pregnancy, and it carries a not insignificant risk for what appears to any normal non-sociopath to be a human being.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Considering the abortion procedure that&#8217;s being considering, the vaginal ultrasound is, at most, a short warm-up act.</p>
<p>Again, I wouldn&#8217;t have voted for the bill, and I&#8217;m still pulling the lever for Romney.  I not a Santorum fan, but what he&#8217;s talking about is at an entirely different stage of pregnancy, and it carries a not insignificant risk for what appears to any normal non-sociopath to be a human being.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>Comment on Tests by Andrew Stuttaford</title>
		<link>http://secularright.org/SR/wordpress/2012/02/19/tests/comment-page-1/#comment-23690</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew Stuttaford</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Feb 2012 19:13:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://secularright.org/SR/wordpress/?p=6976#comment-23690</guid>
		<description>Polichinello, as always, thanks for your comments. I should say, however, that the testing proposed by the GOP may indeed &lt;em&gt;have &lt;/em&gt; to be invasive. In certain cases of early stage pregnancy, a &#039;jelly on the belly&#039; ultrasound will not suffice to furnish a detailed enough image to satisfy the requirements of the proposed legislation. 

&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/va-house-set-to-enact-mandatory-invasive-ultrasound-probe-for-women-who-seek-abortions/2012/02/13/gIQA56vnBR_story.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;This &lt;/a&gt;story from the &lt;em&gt;Washington Post&lt;/em&gt; is very much to the point. Here&#039;s the key extract:


&lt;blockquote&gt;&quot;An amendment by Del. David Englin, D-Alexandria, would have allowed medical professionals to determine whether images can be obtained without being penetrated by equipment used in the ultrasound.

&quot;Women would have to give written consent to such a probe under Englin’s amendments, but not to sonograms that are not invasive. The amendment failed on 64-34 vote, setting the bill up for final House passage.&lt;/blockquote&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Polichinello, as always, thanks for your comments. I should say, however, that the testing proposed by the GOP may indeed <em>have </em> to be invasive. In certain cases of early stage pregnancy, a &#8216;jelly on the belly&#8217; ultrasound will not suffice to furnish a detailed enough image to satisfy the requirements of the proposed legislation. </p>
<p><a href="http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/va-house-set-to-enact-mandatory-invasive-ultrasound-probe-for-women-who-seek-abortions/2012/02/13/gIQA56vnBR_story.html" rel="nofollow">This </a>story from the <em>Washington Post</em> is very much to the point. Here&#8217;s the key extract:</p>
<blockquote><p>&#8220;An amendment by Del. David Englin, D-Alexandria, would have allowed medical professionals to determine whether images can be obtained without being penetrated by equipment used in the ultrasound.</p>
<p>&#8220;Women would have to give written consent to such a probe under Englin’s amendments, but not to sonograms that are not invasive. The amendment failed on 64-34 vote, setting the bill up for final House passage.</p></blockquote>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>Comment on Tests by Polichinello</title>
		<link>http://secularright.org/SR/wordpress/2012/02/19/tests/comment-page-1/#comment-23689</link>
		<dc:creator>Polichinello</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Feb 2012 16:39:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://secularright.org/SR/wordpress/?p=6976#comment-23689</guid>
		<description>From the CBS site:
&lt;i&gt;Prenatal tests are a standard part of modern medical care. &lt;/i&gt;

I can&#039;t tell, because the story is very unclear--par for the course with today&#039;s journalists--but Santorum appears to be talking about amniocentesis tests.  These are &quot;standard&quot; in that they are performed, but they carry some risk to the fetus.  There&#039;s something like 1 in 500 risk of an abortion (IIRC).  Now this is a 20 week fetus, with arms, legs, heart, brain, etc.  I&#039;ve seen the 4d Ultrasound image, and THAT was a baby.  I say this, even though I&#039;m as atheist as anyone here, but don&#039;t tell me what I saw there was not human.  I have to go with Hitchens here, and say to argue otherwise makes you a f***ing liar.

The imaging the GOP is talking about is not invasive (unless you give credence to the sound causing distress).  The idea is to give the woman involved an idea of what she&#039;s doing.  I&#039;m not wild about the law, but it involves a test that is way, way different than what Santorum is probably talking about.

Again, I&#039;m not sure because the CBS report is so damned obscure--almost willfully so.  Unsurprisingly, &quot;sophisticated&quot; conservatives gobble this up because it affords them a chance to look cool to their liberal betters, whom they always seem eager to appease.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>From the CBS site:<br />
<i>Prenatal tests are a standard part of modern medical care. </i></p>
<p>I can&#8217;t tell, because the story is very unclear&#8211;par for the course with today&#8217;s journalists&#8211;but Santorum appears to be talking about amniocentesis tests.  These are &#8220;standard&#8221; in that they are performed, but they carry some risk to the fetus.  There&#8217;s something like 1 in 500 risk of an abortion (IIRC).  Now this is a 20 week fetus, with arms, legs, heart, brain, etc.  I&#8217;ve seen the 4d Ultrasound image, and THAT was a baby.  I say this, even though I&#8217;m as atheist as anyone here, but don&#8217;t tell me what I saw there was not human.  I have to go with Hitchens here, and say to argue otherwise makes you a f***ing liar.</p>
<p>The imaging the GOP is talking about is not invasive (unless you give credence to the sound causing distress).  The idea is to give the woman involved an idea of what she&#8217;s doing.  I&#8217;m not wild about the law, but it involves a test that is way, way different than what Santorum is probably talking about.</p>
<p>Again, I&#8217;m not sure because the CBS report is so damned obscure&#8211;almost willfully so.  Unsurprisingly, &#8220;sophisticated&#8221; conservatives gobble this up because it affords them a chance to look cool to their liberal betters, whom they always seem eager to appease.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>

